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av Jansson » 2021-04-22 17:09
av Almen » 2021-04-22 22:45
av Bill50x » 2021-04-22 22:52
av PekkaJohansson » 2021-04-22 23:19
av Jansson » 2021-04-23 15:41
Technical Details:
This was a really big project. Not that the source was bad, the source was actually very nice. However, the source had many anomalies, but enough "clay" was there to mold this into something even better. The entire process was helped immensely by Ikhnaton, who provided material as well as suggestions and many many previews.
The first step was to work on the sound, as the sound was missing for the first part of The Musical Box. The sound still exists but, well...this is another even longer story. Unfortunately, there were not many great recordings that were close enough in time to match the video performance. The best match turned out to be from the official Live LP, although I had to jump through many hoops to not only match the video from a month earlier, but also to match the rest of the audio in "tone". I then inserted a "patch" of audio to erase the overdub from the narrator. This also had to be EQed to match as reasonably close as possible. In the end I used more than one source as the camera is behind the keyboards during this portion, and they needed to be higher in the mix than found in most soundboard Musical Box recordings.
I then remastered the rest of the audio to give it a bit more life, some compression and reverb and stereo effects, though not too much as this is a small club and would be strange if it sounded like Giants Stadium. There were also some odds and ends like the sound reel being flat as it spun up to speed, some ambient audience needed between songs, etc. Most of the audio quality was nice however so it didn't need too much surgery.
The video was much more of a process. AI tools are becoming very useful and fairly fast, but often make things worse when used improperly. There are also about 25 different AI models that I use, each with several different settings. I try many different models in order to get the result I am looking for on the source I am working on, without creating unwanted artifacts.
I also normally have to do more than 1 AI pass. These video tools basically do 3 things well. Noise reduction, up-sampling (increasing size), and enhancement (adding detail) and there is rarely 1 perfect model or setting to get all three, without some very strange things happening. For example, one of the models I tested did a great job on the foreground, but determined that the curtains were hair and they started flowing:) For this film I did 2 passes with 2 totally different models, one of which was still in beta release. I also upscaled higher than desired and then Lanczos reduced back down to get even more detail without adding size.
I also used AviSynth for spot/dirt removal and cleanup, scratch removal on one of the camera reels (mostly during Hogweed), and additional sharpness. I used Neat Video for some additional NR/blending in the lights, which are brighter than normally seen on concert films of the time, and it was very difficult to train a tool to recognize the difference between foreground and background in this case. Then I used FFMPEG for frame interpolation to get smooth motion. Finally of course some color grading in TMPGEnc, to give it more realism, despite some color and lighting inconsistencies between the camera angles.
For the production we decided to move the interviews to the end, as they are mostly annoying during the performance. There was also only a lower quality source for the final reel of The Knife, so the brightness and detail is greatly reduced during the final minute or so.
I won't say that all of these processes were without penalty. But as always, the benefits of each process have to be weighed against the penalties. For the processes we used, we felt there was enough added benefit. Is it definitive? No. Not only do we know there was more of this show filmed, if all the reels could get a higher resolution direct transfer without compression, the results could be better still. But in my opinion, the results we were able to obtain rank this film up there with the best of the Gabriel-era Genesis films.
As always, we hope the fans enjoy this. But we ask that our work on this film not be used without permission or credit to those who put all of the time, effort, and money in to making this happen. Otherwise, those involved will not share their work in the future.
Ikhnaton & http://GenesisMuseum.com
av Dartman » 2021-04-23 22:04
av Jansson » 2021-04-23 22:14
Shepperton Studios, UK: 30/31 October 1973
Watcher of the Skies (0:00)
Dancing with the Moonlit Knight (8:36)
I Know What I Like (17:40)
The Musical Box (24:00)
Supper's Ready (37:10)
It was 40 years ago that Genesis performed in this studio and 10 years ago that I did our first transfer of this 16mm film in PAL format (720x576). The results of this effort along with the generosity at meeksgenesis, SAB for the audio work, RH for the artwork, and a host of others well documented, created a masterpiece that has been used countless times after on TV, bootlegs, "review" DVDs, and even the official Genesis boxed sets. Who would have thought that our work would go so far? Well, I am here to try to push the envelope a little further...I give you Shepperton HD.
16mm is used for amateur (and even professional) filmmaking so there are many more transfer options than for 8mm. But the best of the best is the Spirit DataCine in 2K (2048 pixel CCD resolution) and is used for Hollywood films, as well as PG's recent Secret World Blu-Ray DVD. Of course it is far more common nowadays to see 35mm, transferred by the Spirit in 4K since the film is bigger. They also make an 8mm gate for the Spirit, but because the smaller film size can only use 1K of the resolution (less than HD) this caused debates as to whether it is worthwhile and makes this 8mm gate extremely expensive and almost unheard of. You may also notice that the gate on the Spirit is a little bigger than the previous transfer, maybe 3-5% or so of extra image around the edges. This is still a 4:3 aspect ratio, but more of the stage can be seen than ever before.
The definition we are presented with here is amazing HD (1440x1080), and a beautifully low contrast image. If you thought it was impossible to see more detail than the DVD we created 10 years back, your eyes will feast on this. Cymbal grooves, wood grain, each string on a 12-string guitar...it's all here. Of course in addition to even more film grain, we can see new imperfections like hairs and dust. But I noticed that most of these imperfections switch as the camera view switches, and then switch back when the angle switches back. This means is that these are as a result of the original film recording/creation/editing, and are permanently on the print I have and cannot be removed. I did "clean" some of these digitally, but this is an inexact process and I estimate I was able to remove only about 30% of these imperfections.
The Spirit allowed for better color adjustment during the transfer, so I had less work to do on the color this time. However, the color on this film is kinda a nightmare. One example of the color issues occurs at the end of The Musical Box, where three separate shots show a perfect black background, a cut to a shot with a blue background, followed by a shot that is balanced towards green...all in a matter of a few seconds. So not only has the film been spliced (each splice mark can be seen in HD) between films with a different color balance, but there is sometimes a different color on the right side of the film than the left side of the film in the same scene. I corrected as much as realistically possible, but it is far from perfect.
Because of the amazing video transfer, I felt that the audio was a not a good match in quality. This 16mm film uses "optical" audio, printed down the side of the film like waveforms. This is common for 16mm and fine for dialogue, but not good for music. And unfortunately, there is no great machine to get a better audio transfer, and no great audio source has been discovered even after all these years. So I decided to resync it. Of course there are stories before some songs that could not be redubbed, so they are there in their original form. But I estimate that I was able to achieve about a 90% match for the entire film. I used various soundboards and radio shows, switched and layered and cheated and fine tuned to get it as close as possible. Thanks to Willem for help reviewing my work and suggesting alternate audio sources, and to Dave Raphael for some amazing original artwork as well as suggestions on the film itself.
av PekkaJohansson » 2021-04-23 22:17
av Jansson » 2021-04-23 22:26
PekkaJohansson skrev:Youtube är efter kompaktskivan den enskilt viktigaste källan till stora musikupplevelser här i livet. Både datorn och jag behövde ladda batterierna i går men i kväll ska jag, efter vederbörlig Steinman-hyllning framför stereon, se och höra hela kalaset. Måste säga att jag gillar Phil Collins bäst i det här framförandet - synd bara att han glömde att ta på sig byxorna!
Play me Old King Cole!
Med vänlig hälsning
Pekka
av pingvinen » 2021-05-01 17:48
)av Jansson » 2021-05-01 19:20
av Jansson » 2021-05-01 22:16
av Almen » 2021-05-03 16:12
Jansson skrev:Tänkte på sista avsnittet av P3 historia om Knut den store; King Canute.
Fantastiskt bra låt!
Tack för kung Knut, det var kul att läsa. av Almen » 2021-05-03 16:34
Jansson skrev:Almen, Bill och Pekka!
Lite info om hur och vadThe first step was to work on the sound, as the sound was missing for the first part of The Musical Box. The sound still exists but, well...this is another even longer story. Unfortunately, there were not many great recordings that were close enough in time to match the video performance. The best match turned out to be from the official Live LP
Min första tanke var "Oj, vad det låter likt Genesis Live".av Jansson » 2021-05-04 20:46
av Almen » 2021-05-05 09:15
av Jansson » 2021-05-05 14:11
Almen skrev:Visste inte heller att Can-utility till största delen är en Hackett-låt, både text och musik - i alla fall enligt honom själv. Har tidigare förstått som att han bidrog bara med Horizons till Foxtrot.
av Almen » 2021-05-05 15:19
Jansson skrev:Almen skrev:Visste inte heller att Can-utility till största delen är en Hackett-låt, både text och musik - i alla fall enligt honom själv. Har tidigare förstått som att han bidrog bara med Horizons till Foxtrot.
Här från hästens mun.
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